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PostPosted: Fri Oct 16, 2020 10:46 am 
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Mud King
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Location: Douglasville , Ga
Help a Brother figure something out. I have a 1990 2.6 5 speed that I have totally rebuilt using top shelf parts , including one of Jerry's cams. Runs good. No fire breather mind you , but good. bored .40 over , new head , blah , blah , blah.

I've been assisting a friend , who is putting an 86 back on the road. It has needed everything. But the short story is we bought a donor motor (2.6) , and bolted on the 2.3 intake and a Weber 32/36. Nothing special internally in the motor.

Just drove the 86 yesterday for the first time. Pulls better than mine in every gear. I'm both stoked and bummed , all at the same time. Like drinking Jager bombs. an upper with a downer.

His is bolted to the MSG tranny. Mine the MUA5. Both 4.56 geared , both on 31" M/T's.

Is the carb conversion just that much better than the I-Tec ? I have just bought a small camper , and would gladly accept a few extra pulling ponies if it's just the carb set up. Many here have done this swap. Is this something that would be worth doing on mine to get the extra grunt?

I assembled both motors , timed both motors. Mine @12. (per Jerry) , his @6 (per service manual).

Dan

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1990 Trooper 2.6 , 5 speed , 31" MT's
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PostPosted: Fri Oct 16, 2020 11:22 am 
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I am the Stig
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I don't know the difference in gearing between the trannys, but gear ratio's can make a car respond differently to throttle in puts. I did the Weber swap on my 89 mainly because I was having difficulty sorting out an idle issue, and I didn't want the issues with the hidden ignition module etc. I would think the bored out engine with a more aggressive cam profile should perform better. On mine I can say I can feel the point when the secondary (36) opens and it responds well, maybe slightly better than when I had the ITEC installed. I haven't read on here, anyone that has been disappointed in the swap. I do have the 4.77 gears.

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1990 Amigo, 2.3 5 speed (sold)
1991 Pick up (long gone)
2000 Amigo, 2.2 5 speed(sold)
1985 Trooper 1.9 4 speed (sent back to KS)
1989 Trooper RS 2.6 5 spd. Red

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PostPosted: Fri Oct 16, 2020 12:47 pm 
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Mud King
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itsmehb wrote:
I don't know the difference in gearing between the trannys, but gear ratio's can make a car respond differently to throttle in puts. I did the Weber swap on my 89 mainly because I was having difficulty sorting out an idle issue, and I didn't want the issues with the hidden ignition module etc. I would think the bored out engine with a more aggressive cam profile should perform better. On mine I can say I can feel the point when the secondary (36) opens and it responds well, maybe slightly better than when I had the ITEC installed. I haven't read on here, anyone that has been disappointed in the swap. I do have the 4.77 gears.


4.77 would be nice.
On this playing field , everything is level. I've owned 3 2.6/5 speed Isuzu's , a 1st gen Amigo , and 2 1st Gen Troopers. All I-TEC motors. They all power up the same. Electric. No wiz bang acceleration , just a big 4 cylinder motor building to a modest rev , and on to the next gear. The 86 isn't going to Bonneville by any stretch , it just runs good. Darn good. Better than any of my 3 ever have. I'm a motorhead , I play with Trucks and bikes , Know my way around carburetors (too well some times) , and was thoroughly surprised at how well the 86 pulls. Perhaps I need to stick my head back in my motor bay and see if I missed something. I was methodical in the build , but I'm also just a grease monkey that works on stuff. I was hoping my motor with Jerry's cam was going to pull about like his stock motor does. sigh........

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1990 Trooper 2.6 , 5 speed , 31" MT's
1994 Trooper LS


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PostPosted: Fri Oct 16, 2020 8:55 pm 
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Zu Royalty

Joined: Thu Feb 24, 2011 10:24 pm
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Location: Central NC
I remember Jerry telling me a while back that the 2.3 Troopers were quite a bit lighter than the 2.6's, primarily because of the difference in the weight of the transmission, front and rear axles. He also said the 2 dr's were lighter than the 4 dr's. less weight = more HP.

Mike

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PostPosted: Fri Oct 16, 2020 10:26 pm 
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Mud King
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gruff54 wrote:
I remember Jerry telling me a while back that the 2.3 Troopers were quite a bit lighter than the 2.6's, primarily because of the difference in the weight of the transmission, front and rear axles. He also said the 2 dr's were lighter than the 4 dr's. less weight = more HP.

Mike


Are you suggesting I lay off the cheeseburgers and shut up? :) Well , that might be so , but between the two of us there was 500 pounds of people inside it. Still ran better than my empty (no rear seat) 4 door when I'm alone. It's amusing and painful , all wrapped up in one. Like smacking your funny bone while juggling your grandmother's fine China.

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1990 Trooper 2.6 , 5 speed , 31" MT's
1994 Trooper LS


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PostPosted: Sat Oct 17, 2020 6:33 am 
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Zu Royalty

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Big Bear wrote:
Are you suggesting I lay off the cheeseburgers and shut up? :) Well , that might be so , but between the two of us there was 500 pounds of people inside it. Still ran better than my empty (no rear seat) 4 door when I'm alone. It's amusing and painful , all wrapped up in one. Like smacking your funny bone while juggling your grandmother's fine China.


Nope, not at all. What's the matter, you got a guilty conscience? :lol: :lol: Just kidding. He and I were having a conversation about gas mileage. He said if you were looking for the best mpg, one of the earlier 2 dr Troopers would be your best bet. So just saying if yours is an '90 4 dr and his is a '86 2 dr, that may be the difference. Compare it again with 4 people in his and 2 in yours and see if that makes a difference.

Mike

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PostPosted: Sat Oct 17, 2020 7:37 am 
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I am the Stig

Joined: Fri Mar 16, 2012 8:28 pm
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Location: St Pete Florida
I have a difficult time figuring that an MSG tranny would be LIGHTER than the MUA5. IIRC, isn't a good part of the MSG cast iron? I never picked up an MSG (it stayed in my 1987 Trooper). I have picked up several MUA5s.
Now as to lighter, well maybe an earlier TWO DOOR Trooper is lighter, but I doubt by that much. I can say that my Spacecab was considerably lighter that a Trooper, and I considered it peppy compared to my '87 4 cylinder Trooper (even though there were a good 10-15 years between owning the vehicles
EFI vs Carb: Well the nice thing about a carb conversion is YOU can control the settings - timing, advance, carb size and jetting. Check out Johnny's video of a 4 cylinder Trooper with a Weber 38/38. But kiss your gas mileage goodbye if you go this route.
The EFI is NOT designed for performance, it is designed for EMISSION CONTROL. Dennis

EDIT: "Our guy" with the Weber 38/38
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JXtWItvsVtE

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1991 LS Trooper 2.8 V6 5 speed conversion (Sold)
1989 LS Spacecab 2.6 5 speed 4x4 manual hubs, Rodeo torsion bars, extended shackles, 2" lift, K&N air filter (drop in), dump bed conversion, burgundy interior change, warn brush bar. Engine is bored .020 oversize and upgraded to 1994 pistons, head and EFI system.
Previously owned: 1987 Trooper II LS, 1989 Trooper (parts only), 1994 Trooper 3.2 Auto, 1997 Rodeo 2.6 5 speed, 1993 shortbed pickup 2.3 (project - sold) 1992 Rodeo 4x4 LS (parts car, devoured by Spacecab needs) plus some 70 plus other non Isuzu vehicles over the years. 1994 Amigo devoured to provide head and EFI system.
Heavily damaged by engine compartment fire while driving on March 24th 2018, condemned by insurance company and taken on March 30th 2018 :cry:.

https://forum.planetisuzoo.com/viewtopic.php?f=15&t=64060
City of St Petersburg (Fl) Fleet Maintenance 8/23/83 - 12/4/2018 (Retired). Started new job 6/4/2019. Was retired, now just tired.

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PostPosted: Sun Oct 18, 2020 12:47 pm 
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Mud King
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DSUZU wrote:
I have a difficult time figuring that an MSG tranny would be LIGHTER than the MUA5. IIRC, isn't a good part of the MSG cast iron? I never picked up an MSG (it stayed in my 1987 Trooper). I have picked up several MUA5s.
Now as to lighter, well maybe an earlier TWO DOOR Trooper is lighter, but I doubt by that much. I can say that my Spacecab was considerably lighter that a Trooper, and I considered it peppy compared to my '87 4 cylinder Trooper (even though there were a good 10-15 years between owning the vehicles
EFI vs Carb: Well the nice thing about a carb conversion is YOU can control the settings - timing, advance, carb size and jetting. Check out Johnny's video of a 4 cylinder Trooper with a Weber 38/38. But kiss your gas mileage goodbye if you go this route.
The EFI is NOT designed for performance, it is designed for EMISSION CONTROL. Dennis

EDIT: "Our guy" with the Weber 38/38
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JXtWItvsVtE


I have been under the 86 a couple times. I know the MSG is Aluminium at the bell. Didn't remember seeing a cast iron t-case. His 2.6 carbed reminds me of an old Toyota work truck I drove for my company. 22RE. That's a favorable comparison.

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1990 Trooper 2.6 , 5 speed , 31" MT's
1994 Trooper LS


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PostPosted: Sun Oct 18, 2020 3:50 pm 
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GM smog motors with EFI and no conventional distributer retard the ignition timing DELIBERATELY to reduce peak combustion temps to lower NOx emissions.
And AFAIK these are basically GM engines.

I have a 94 LT1 station wagon, it was kind of sluggish. So when I changed the waterpump, I took off the optispark and cut oblong holes to advance the ignition timing, and boy did that make a big difference in performance. Horsepower boosted and still no pinging on regular gas.


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PostPosted: Mon Oct 19, 2020 11:31 am 
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Mud King
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namealreadyinuse wrote:
GM smog motors with EFI and no conventional distributer retard the ignition timing DELIBERATELY to reduce peak combustion temps to lower NOx emissions.
And AFAIK these are basically GM engines.

I have a 94 LT1 station wagon, it was kind of sluggish. So when I changed the waterpump, I took off the optispark and cut oblong holes to advance the ignition timing, and boy did that make a big difference in performance. Horsepower boosted and still no pinging on regular gas.


These particular motors are all Isuzu. They did use a V6 that was GM. These are the 4 cylinders. We have a 92 wagon with the cast iron 350. It’s needs help. Don’t tell momma it’s on my radar....

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1990 Trooper 2.6 , 5 speed , 31" MT's
1994 Trooper LS


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PostPosted: Mon Oct 19, 2020 12:54 pm 
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Zu Royalty
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Dan, did you use the 2.3 cylinder head? If so, that'll bump up the compression slightly as the chambers are smaller.

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PostPosted: Mon Oct 19, 2020 2:04 pm 
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Mud King
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reran wrote:
Dan, did you use the 2.3 cylinder head? If so, that'll bump up the compression slightly as the chambers are smaller.

Good question. No , we actually have the 2.6 head on the 86 , coupled with the 2.3 intake and exhaust manifolds.

I'm asking these questions selfishly. I mean , nobody drag races Troopers , but his has more pep than mine for sure. I recently bought a vintage camper (very small) , and would love a few extra ponies to pull it with. :mrgreen:

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1990 Trooper 2.6 , 5 speed , 31" MT's
1994 Trooper LS


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PostPosted: Mon Oct 19, 2020 5:14 pm 
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DSUZU wrote:
I have a difficult time figuring that an MSG tranny would be LIGHTER than the MUA5. IIRC, isn't a good part of the MSG cast iron? I never picked up an MSG (it stayed in my 1987 Trooper). I have picked up several MUA5s.
Now as to lighter, well maybe an earlier TWO DOOR Trooper is lighter, but I doubt by that much. I can say that my Spacecab was considerably lighter that a Trooper, and I considered it peppy compared to my '87 4 cylinder Trooper (even though there were a good 10-15 years between owning the vehicles
EFI vs Carb: Well the nice thing about a carb conversion is YOU can control the settings - timing, advance, carb size and jetting. Check out Johnny's video of a 4 cylinder Trooper with a Weber 38/38. But kiss your gas mileage goodbye if you go this route.
The EFI is NOT designed for performance, it is designed for EMISSION CONTROL. Dennis

EDIT: "Our guy" with the Weber 38/38
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JXtWItvsVtE


Just had this conversation with a couple ISUZU gurus. The cast of the MSG would more than make up for a couple extra doors,roof etc.

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1989 2.8 5 Spd Trooper LS Stock - SOLD
14 Years of getting me in, around and out of places I probably shouldn't have been in the first place.
1988 2.6 5 Spd 4ZE1
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