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Done with IFS - my turn for SAS

87K views 244 replies 40 participants last post by  lorenzo816 
#1 ·
So many of you know I've been wheelin just fine with the 34's and drop diff and OME springs and the aussie locker.
Been wheeling with a lot of people on this board and learned a lot. Glad to be here really.
I've also been pushing it pretty hard for about 7 years now. Well now its time for a change. The whole front-end just pisses me off every time I have to work on it.

So I've been collecting parts here and there and just in the past few months its been getting serious.
Over time I managed to get everything I need now for the swap except tires.
Gonna post up here first and hold off on putting anything up on NC4x4 until I have some more work done.

So here is a good shot of my truck as it sits now:


Here is what I currently run:
3" suspension - longer shackles and Torsion bar crank with Inde4x ball joint spacers and flip
OME Dakar HD springs
1" body lift
drop-diff (1.25")
4.56 gears (10 bolt front swap from trooper and regear the rear to match)
Aussie locker in the rear
34" LTBs (sold) on 15x7 snowflakes (sold)
Trail Gear (for toyota) rock sliders
2" gas tank lift
Aisin manual hubs
Moog ball joints.....

Here is the plan:
???" suspension lift
3 link on a Dana 44 (64" wms) with 4.56 gears and an OX locker
Highsteer on flat top knuckles (already got 'em)
12" Fox coilovers up front
SOA the rear end (keeping the aussie in there)
1" or 1.5" inch spacers on rear (to bring the rear wms to 62" or 63")
Trackbar on the rear
37" 12.50 on 17's (thinking MTRs or STTs or KM2s)
Warn premium manual hubs
Cromoly axle shafts
Revo gear - T-Case (3:1)

Pics as time goes on... here are a few teasers.
And if the truck blows up or takes a crap... I'm cutting it all off and moving on. No love loss - I just love the fact we have room for 4 adults and can wheel comfortably and the wheelbase is badass compared to a jeep. Also love the body on frame, cast iron front diff, good stock gearing... Isuzu did it right. SO yeah, this is a good truck to start a build on. No sense in moving on yet.
;-)

Flat Top knuckle with High steer

OX locker

Full width 44 (donor) and the J10 Axle

Nissan 17x8 rims
 
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#202 ·
With your ability to break **** I'd maybe shy away from the toyota doubler. You'd be springing for the blingest parts which would probably put you at a ~$2k setup and you'd still be walking the line on strength. It might work out fine, and there are dudes out there running that gear with no problems, but your rig is full bodied and not light, and although you don't have a ton of power, that weight plays a factor.

I shied away from toyota stuff because I didn't want my t-case to be the fuse. If it was an amigo or shorty 1st gen RS with toyota axles or a buggy or something, I wouldn't be that concerned.

What other drivetrain options were you considering? I'm gonna have a machinist buddy in my club help me with my adapter for the 700r4 to Zu case. I think the deep 3:06:1 1st gear in the auto, the torque converter multiplication factor, and the 3.07:1 in the case will be a good combo for the trails. Easier to control without the clutch to worry about. Plus it's not electronically controlled, so I don't have to worry about the changing the ECU or adding a trans control module, hell I can go full manual with it if I want.
 
#203 ·
Thanks for the update. Love your rigs set-up. New bumper great looking. Thanks for the pictures, Tony
 
#204 ·
Dam...thats a lot of breakage. I don't know if I just wheel way less or it's an wast coast thing but so far I've only broken 1 stub shaft and that was not even wheeling.

I always look forward to updates on your truck, since it's the closest thing to mine. :)

I hope you get stuff figured out. I have liked my high pinion, but i almost think with the breakage you've had it might be worth doing D60 stuff.
 
#205 ·
Yea but my breaks are all rear now since I upgraded the front shafts and joints.
I'd rather have my fuse be a rear shaft or driveline joint than a front shaft or joint.
Just speaking from cost perspective. My rear shafts are no questions asked replacements! :)
I'll do my high pinion front then center up the rear.
And I was just out west in AZ wheelin with Dave and Jreddy.
You guys have more traction!!
That's the key. Reminds me of this meme. -->
https://drive.google.com/open?id=1xLfzo ... X1gvDG4oj0
It's not like all that happened in one day, but it does seem like every fourth time I go out, some crap happens!
Lol
 
#206 ·
I should probably add my latest Axle work to this thread.
Sometime between last winter 2018 and the Spring of 2019, I twisted the axle tube in the front housing and decided it was time for a huge upgrade. I bought a center chunk with the tubes cut off that was from a Ford high pinion 44. Just waiting for the day. Well now because the tube twisted, now was the time.

I tore into the front and took it all apart. It sat like this for maybe a month or two.



And yes "after all that, it's still a 44" - Andy says... anyhow
True but this is thicker tube, welded to the housing not just the plug welds. Chris (marsfab) had the brackets' files so remaking them was an "quick" job.







ECGS made the custom axle with a HP housing I dropped off, torched the tube out and mod'd it to fit my current Cromo Axle shafts. New beefy C's and new Balljoints.
I fixed up a 2wd truck and sold it to cover the cost$$$ of all the work so was nice to not have to dip into my wallet too far for all this.





I even got lucky with a front drive shaft from a Scout.
I measured the front shaft on my Scout and it was exactly what I needed in diameter to clear the exhaust since the shaft was up higher.
I got two of them for $75 a piece, balanced one and put fresh joints in both of them.



funny how things work out like that.
 
#207 ·
Then I removed the damper from the clutch system and put in a braided line and a new Master and Slave.
Pain in the A$s!!
There is no knuckle space down there compared to other vehicles.




Then I went for a test run in Uwharrie before my club ride at AOP in Tennessee.
https://photos.app.goo.gl/jLALbkqXkGgNAEKx6

Works fabulous.
Now i have a loose steering box on the frame.
Might be time hydro assist.
 
#208 ·
#209 ·
Nice. What rear axle are you running again? Also do you have a sway bar on the front or rear? Can you take pics? Lastly, what springs are you running on your truck?

It seems mine is still taller then yours...it leans fairly heavily on turns but cant dee how I'd fit a front sway bar.

I also broke a shaft and ARB in the rear last year and barely got it fixed....and realizing I am looking at junkyard shafts, it's a little discouraging
 
#211 ·
jonesy, the rear is the FZJ80 disc brake landcruiser rear axle.
No sway bar but we did a anti-wrap bar when the yota axle was put in. Pretty sure the wrap is what took out the 44 since it was SOA.
Mine turns like a race car and I'm use to the sway. Funny I can do a double diamond in my truck faster than the lady's lexus but hers begins to screech tires at the same speed.
She was staring at me like why are you going that fast? I said I'm not, I go faster in my truck. lol
Oh and the rear has lost some height because the springs have softened up over the years. i dont care yet though to replace them.

Watcha mean shaft? Like in the locker itself?
or a rear shaft? You can get some cromo axle shafts made up. Throw some money at it. Get ya smiles back.

Thx enimigo.
 
#212 ·
Rear axle shaft snapped taking out the ARB. I was able to just replace the case luckily...but the whole thing cost about $1100 to repair. If I wasn't linked in the rear I'd be more inclined to find a different axle solution...but it's already so customized it gets expensive to keep running when a problem comes up. Not to mention that I'm taller then preferred but with the customization being built around the 3" bl it's hard to do much with it.

I would like to figure out limiting straps and sway bat up front so I dont have so much body roll and I felt a little more comfortable about driving on the street.

I think having a shop you trust is great when you cant do the work yourself. I'm having a hard time finding that as well
 
#213 ·
So true on being 'stuck' with a linked setup and having to find another one, get it tabbed and built out with gears, lockers and all.
Paul has straps on his trooper up front - just fyi.
My fab guy is backed up with a huge portal axle project so I'm going to get my steering box frame section strengthened with a guy like an hour away.
You're right. Funny I live in nascar country and have so many race shops but haven't made any connections with those guys. There doesn't seem to be that much cross over in that area except maybe the engine guys. Mud + rocks guys out here don't cross over much either. So too along the lines do the Fab guys. They tend to follow a lane of the hobby if that makes sense. Hard to find someone who knows what we do and how to build it 'right'.
 
#214 ·
Awesome build Lorenzo!

Any chance you've got a source on those spindle shims for the d44? My wagoneer axle has the same positive camber. \--•-/

Going to try the ball joint bushings but I'd rather get some done with a shim so I can adjust with the ball joint.
 
#215 ·
try to find these online:
https://www.summitracing.com/parts/iec-26126

I have two but I always keep an eye on my front end and tire wear to see if I need to add them to the custom front axle.
It seems to be visually 'fine' staring at the truck dead on - but I don't put nowhere enough actual onroad mileage to notice a difference right now. Plus the tires I have are ate up to he\\ and would be hard to notice it.
 
#216 ·
Thanks for the link. I haven't been able to find that part available anywhere unfortunately. Seems as if the company was bought by doorman. I guess they didn't like the shim idea...

Napa lists some similar ones online but no availability. I've got to try in the store when I get a chance. Maybe those guys will have something.
 
#217 ·
Another thread I've never seen and need to read. I've even talked to Lorenzo on the phone and still haven't even really seen his rig. I'll dig into this when I have time. Like everyone else who reaches this point, I'm trying to decide if I want to maintain my drivability, or jump into a SAS so I can rip on the trails a little harder.

What I need to do is move so I can have more room and just build a second Trooper...
 
#218 · (Edited by Moderator)
That stinks man. Try to keep searching. I can't believe ingalls is the only person who ever made these.

Stu, come on man you are late to the party.
:bigsmurf:

I've wheeled the snot of out this thing and the only issues I keep having are eating through the Barnes4wd joint bushings. Maybe its me not tightening them enough or they are too tight - or they just wear out faster than I expect.
Anyhow last year some time, I noticed I was starting to eat through the frame at the steering box. Since I don't have hydro, the frame takes all the pressure of pushing those meats.
A friend of mine up the road did some pretty nice welding on it to fix it up and make it way stronger.

I'm going to start uploading pics here directly from now on... hope everything shows up a-okay
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#219 · (Edited by Moderator)
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Here is a pic of some place up in VA. You can see if you zoom in I do have some pretty good articulation. :D :D
And I got a friend here Timberwolf, his name is Earl to join our club.
He's got a 4.3 700r4 atlas combination in the Amigo.
IMG_1382.JPG


And funny, its always your backyard that F's you. I've been all over from Windrock to AOP and no issues. But I guess the dumb o'clock hour is what causes the most damage.
I broke a front cromoly yukon outer shaft clean on a night run.
I got video of it too. You can hear it snap. At least it didn't take out the spindle like the first time I broke one.
IMG_3540.JPG

Anyhow got that warrantied from ECGS.

Here is a recent pic from WV:
IMG_4079.JPG
 

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#220 ·
Dig your truck still Lorenzo.

I'm debating selling mine as I hardly use it anymore. The last breakage of the rear shaft hurt financially (took out the ARB as well) With all the customization I have a hard time finding a shop that knows enough (that I trust) Seeing yours makes me want to keep mine.
 
#221 ·
#222 ·
Just another update for any of those peeps still following my build.
I noticed some knocking in the rear after our last trip to Windrock TN.
I pulled the shafts and check this out: New video by Lorenzo Morales

And that's the long side! Usually the short side just snaps. Interesting how the long side twisted so much.
Also I blew up another ARB in the 9.5" land cruiser rear. I decided to get a new one and sell the old one for parts.
And in the meantime, I picked up this bad boy so I can STOP BREAKING sh-t. Well that's the hope, right?!

Earlier this in April I went out to Moab with some Zu fam who do the annual trip.
Jack a fellow SAS'd Rodeo had trashed motor mounts and we had to do some trail straps to keep everything from bouncing around.
Eventually replaced one in the parking lot of the motel and a trans mount too.
This got me off my *** and I replaced my mounts with the Isuzu OEM ones I had laying on the shop floor for months. Good thing too. One was completely shredded.
Motor vehicle Gas Font Asphalt Art

Wall Gas Auto part Wood Metal

Drives so much better. The throttle response is so improved.



Automotive tire Grass Shorts Motor vehicle Tire


Stayed tuned.
 
#223 ·
Sad to see @Jonesy sell his rig but I saw on the FB IsuzuTrader the guy who got it is a fellow Zu head too. Cool deal. Hope to see it on its wheeling adventures.

Well if anyone else is still following along.

I'm getting the 14 bolt built up finally.
I shaved all the brackets off. Got the ARB and 5.38 installed. Should be ready for pick up this week.
I have a 5.13 and trutrac for sale if anyone knows someone who needs an LSD or deeper gears.
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Once i have the 14 back, then its time to weld on the spring perches, shock tabs and set my pinion angle. I'm not sure if I'm going to do that before or after this next uwharrie ride withe the fellow Zu folks.
I also managed to get a set of Solid/Spyntec industries 6 lug hubs and got the raybestos rotors machined to fit the hubs.
Automotive tire Rim Gas Automotive wheel system Motor vehicle



I do have a set up lugnut 4x4 calipers with the eldorado p-brakes in hopes that all works out too.

Seems like I have a few unknowns in regards to braking, including the proportioner too. I hear from another Zu guy with a 14 bolt that the rear wants to pull around when hard braking so I need to solve that death trap for sure. And I need a parking brake. Like need need need. So that may be the deciding factor on when I swap out the FZJ80 for the 14 bolt.
This also gives me the opportunity to redo my leaf spring bushings that so badly need to be redone.

Check out the size difference in the axle shafts 14 bolt GM compared to the FZJ80 Land Cruiser:
Wood Grey Cylinder Graphite Gas
 
#224 ·
Beef.

Dude I totally hear you on the parking brake. I haven't had one on the trooper in years and I kind of got used to it, but I hate relying on the trans staying in gear to keep it from going down a mountain. The zuk has one and I've loved having it on the trail.

I will be following along to see how you're brakes work out. Might have to steal some ideas.
 
#226 · (Edited)
For those following along still….. great! Here is an update.
Finally got space for two vehicles back in the garage so I could fully commit.

friend of mine installed fresh 5.38 gears and ARB for me with a 1350 yoke.
I tapped the breather for a larger hole. The other hole is the airline hole plugged with tape to keep debris out. I used a magnet on both sides when I enlarged the breather hole to a 3/8 npt. Seems large but it’s perfect. It aught to breath good now and I’m going to add some atf to keep the foaming down. The pinion now you’ll see is going to be pitched up some to get a better driveline angle which requires overfilling and overfilling causes foaming. Anyhow on with the show…

Sleeve Grey Automotive lighting Wood Liquid


I burned up a 2lb roll of high nickel wire $$$ getting the truss welded on and the tubes welded up.
Tire Automotive tire Tread Wheel Synthetic rubber

It’s super weird to weld high speed and reverse polarity. But she’s done best I could. I preheated to around 250°-300° and reheated after I welded. I jumped around a lot so as to not have one section cool before the others. I reheated and then covered the hog with a welding blanket then a wrapped again with a moving blanket and left it overnight. No cracks!

so the point of no return is here.
I unbolted the leaves and shackles. Cut the U bolts off the Land Cruiser axle and rolled her out the way.
not even 100 miles maybe on a new ARB and 5.29s
Luckily I have a buyer. Another guy with a trooper and a Toyota drivetrain. This should be beef for him.

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you can get a better look at my parking brake bracket and the wrap bar brackets he hopes to reuse.
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now onto the fun stuff.
I put the new “13 bolt” diff cover on and sawzall the bottom 1”+ of meat off.
More ground clearance and a full shave including gears IMO isn’t all worth it. This is good enough.

Shoe Automotive tire Hood Wood Bumper


So I had a back and forth with @paulevans76
About using Toyota springs which are cheaper but the eyelets are different. Would need a special set of poly bushings for the front mount. The price on OME Dakar leaves has shot up. I decided to buy another pair for the black trooper project and use what I had in the shed for the isuzu. Paul says he’s gonna take my old leaves eventually for his Sami. Which I think will be great setup.
I will say I still haven’t received my new set of springs for the black truck. I hope it’s just delayed. It’s been a few weeks. Would suck to be out of stock now.
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I set the 14 in place and got the truck where I wanted it. Let the weight off the stands onto the perches and angled the hog snout straight to the case output. Tcase is about 1° down and the pinion yoke is about 13-14° up.

full commitment now. Or the grinder comes back out and the wallet too! :LOL:
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the magnet is just sitting there. I actually did measure off the yoke strap flats.
The spindles are wrapped in tape to keep clean and the spindle nuts are taped in place to keep the threads good.I didn’t want to take any chances messing this up so took some queues from some other folks.

now for the fun part. Will it all bolt up now?? Having a 20 ton press is super useful even though most of the year it just sits there begging to get used.
I hammered in the studs with some red loctite and finished them in the press.
I double checked my wheels and YES they fit through the bore and I already have some larger new metric nuts for the studs. And I checked months ago to make sure I could still get a socket on there!
#winningSoFar!!
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Here is where I’m at now.
I’ve confirmed the parking brake brackets and lugnut4x4 calipers bolt up BUT I need to drill the caliper brackets new holes so I can clock it back to run a parking brake cable under the axle. The isuzu cables are SOA and won’t work unless I flip-flopped the calipers left/right and I’m not doing that having a headache trying to bleed calipers that are upside down.
I also may need to sink the calipers down some on the brackets with new holes to not have pads running outside the rotor. I’ll have to reinspect that before I get too far.
but here is where she sits today.


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