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Starchild · Posted: Sun May 21, 2006 12:35 am Post subject: Trans swap under way

I'm far enough along to get a thread started, so here goes. Got the old trans pulled finally today.

A big thanks to Tad who helped me get a lot of stuff done last weekend. There were plent of things I would have spend hours figuring out with out his experience.

Here's the new trans. A 700R4 from a 2.8L Chevy. I picked it up with a heavy duty rebuild, and had them install a shift kit, upgraded servos, and a 4wd output shaft. The torque converter is a 2060 rpm stall.

Here is the current state of my new transfer case

You'd hardly recognize it from the one that passes through the hands of three well meaning Isuzu owners before it got used. The only thing I'm waiting on to put this mess back together is my Tera Low 4:1 gears Very Happy

In addition to the gears, I'm making several other modifications to the t-case. This combination requires a new input shaft to match the 27 spline output on the transmission. Here is the difference in the shafts

This shaft is made specifically for this combination by JB Conversions. The bearings are installed on the shaft in these pics. The new shaft has a sealed bearing rather than the stock open bearing. This is an extra precaution because the adapter I'm using does not have a seal between the transmission and the transfer case. This should help to prevent mingling of the fluids.

The adapter is from a 700R4 with a NP208, probably out of a full size Chevy. I got this one from JB Conversions as well.

The adapter bolt pattern happens to fit 5 out of 6 of the bolts for the Dana 300, which is plenty strong.

here is the inpt shaft assembly installed in the input shaft support.

And the input shaft assembly test fit in the adapter

Not a bad fit for parts that were never supposed to go together Razz

I need to replace the rear main seal, clean things up and make sure everything on the rear of the engine is looking good, and I'll get the new trans in there.

More to come...

Andre
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1994 Trooper - Delightfully close to stock

bigpoppax2 · Posted: Sun May 21, 2006 8:46 am Post subject:

That looks like a pretty good start on the tranny swap. I hope your gears arrive soon. I know how gutwrenching it can be to pull something all apart and want to have all the details on how it came apart fresh in your mind as the thing gets put back together.

Keep the pics coming.

Joe
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After concealed carry guy shot a gun wielding robber....."I'm just a Law abiding citizen dumping some chlorine into the gene pool"

98 RodeoPort 34" LTB's, Supercharged and some other cool stuff.

TrooperJ · Posted: Sun May 21, 2006 12:08 pm Post subject:

Looking great, Andre. Cant wait to see the final results.
-J Wink

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Jordan Brown in Athens Georgia

'90 Trooper V6, a few mods, (near) future dedicated trail toy
'97 Rodeo V6, bone stock, and staying (pretty much) that way.

Tad · Posted: Sun May 21, 2006 10:53 pm Post subject:

Come on already, hold that torque converter up and see if it matches the crank Smile

-Tad
_________________
tad@planetisuzoo.com
http://www.planetisuzoo.com
2001 Trooper - 4.77s, 3xARB, OME 919HD springs. 255x85 Maxxis Bighorn MTs
1999 Rodeo - rebuilt DD
1980 300GD
2000 Suburban
2000 E320

Starchild · Posted: Sun May 21, 2006 11:50 pm Post subject:

bigpoppax2 · Posted: Mon May 22, 2006 8:51 am Post subject:

There is the first snag. I guess if it was easy, girl scouts would be doing it.

I hope you find an easy solution. My old transfer case is in the garage floor. I'm ready on my end.

Joe
_________________
After concealed carry guy shot a gun wielding robber....."I'm just a Law abiding citizen dumping some chlorine into the gene pool"

98 RodeoPort 34" LTB's, Supercharged and some other cool stuff.

Tad · Posted: Mon May 22, 2006 11:20 am Post subject:

It might be possible to shim the 3 torque converter to flex plate bolts. That way the snout doesn't have to be trimmed and it won't bend the flex plate when you tighten the bolts.

-Tad
_________________
tad@planetisuzoo.com
http://www.planetisuzoo.com
2001 Trooper - 4.77s, 3xARB, OME 919HD springs. 255x85 Maxxis Bighorn MTs
1999 Rodeo - rebuilt DD
1980 300GD
2000 Suburban
2000 E320

Starchild · Posted: Mon May 22, 2006 11:44 am Post subject:

Starchild · Posted: Mon May 22, 2006 11:46 am Post subject:

GenXr · Posted: Mon May 22, 2006 1:11 pm Post subject:

I'm sure this might be premature but what issues will you have with the shifter linkages? Do you know what mods have to be done to get them in the stock places in the cab?

I wish I lived near you to help you out! Good luck!!

Does anyone one know yet if this swap can be done on the OBDII vehicles that have TCMs?
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Starchild · Posted: Mon May 22, 2006 1:44 pm Post subject:

I'm going to be reusing the stock shifter and linkage. I need to modify the part that actually attaches to the selector shaft to make it fit, and I might have to shorten or extend the linkage to get the right movement. The shift pattern should be the same.

For the T-case, I'm going to be using a cable twin stick shifter from Northwest Fab. It should install very cleanly, and I won't have to deal with any hard linkages.
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1994 Trooper - Delightfully close to stock

Starchild · Posted: Thu May 25, 2006 11:47 am Post subject:

I got my new gears earlier than expected, so I started installing those last night. I seem to be missing one of the shifter balls that hold the T-case shifter in place Confused

I did a quick search, and found the kit with new springs and balls from Quadratech for $0.99 Shocked

. It's nice to have a large selection of resources for a change Razz

My old case is packed up and ready to send to Joe today.

We're having some company for the holiday weekend, so I plan to take advantage of the extra set of hands to get the new trans under the truck, and onto the tranny jack. That should make things a bit easier to manage by myself.
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1994 Trooper - Delightfully close to stock

GenXr · Posted: Fri May 26, 2006 1:27 pm Post subject:

[quote="Starchild"] It's nice to have a large selection of resources for a change Razz

[/quote]

I heared that! I just bought an Intake and new exhaust system for my dad's 95 toy pickup from Downey Off-road. It's amazing how much after market support there is for "other" manufacturers.
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Starchild · Posted: Fri May 26, 2006 10:30 pm Post subject:

I took some measurements of how the stock torque converter sits in the transmission vs. the 700R4. The results are encouraging.

The feet of the stock TC that mount to the flex plate are about 1/8" in from the face of the bellhousing. The 700R4 tourque converter sits about 9/16" in from the bellhousing. This amounts to a difference of 7/16" that will need to be shimmed between the flex plate and the TC. This should help offset the difference in the TC snout length, and hopefully minimize or eliminate the need to cut it down.

It's coming along, I just wish my job and life didn't get in the way of my wrenching time Wink

Andre
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1994 Trooper - Delightfully close to stock

JLEMOND · Almost Joe Isuzu Joined: 18 Apr 2006 Posts: 2290

[quote="Starchild"]I took some measurements of how the stock torque converter sits in the transmission vs. the 700R4. The results are encouraging.

The feet of the stock TC that mount to the flex plate are about 1/8" in from the face of the bellhousing. The 700R4 tourque converter sits about 9/16" in from the bellhousing. This amounts to a difference of 7/16" that will need to be shimmed between the flex plate and the TC. This should help offset the difference in the TC snout length, and hopefully minimize or eliminate the need to cut it down.

It's coming along, I just wish my job and life didn't get in the way of my wrenching time Wink

Andre[/quote]

HEY ANDRE DON,T FORGET YOU DON,T WANT THE TORQUE CONVERTOR BOTTOMED IN THE TRANS WHEN YOU BOLT IT TO THE FLYWHEEL, WITH THE TRANNY BELLHOUSING AGAINST THE BACK OF THE ENG AND THE CONVERTOR BOTTOMED IN THE TRANNY SLIDE THE CONVERTOR BACK TOWARD THE ENG ABOUT 1/16 OF AN INCH AND THEN MAKE YOUR MEASURMENTS BETWEEN THE LUGS AND THE WHEEL FACE THIS WAY YOU WON,T DAMAGE THE FRT OIL PMP IN THE TRANNY AND HAV E TO START ALL OVER , ALLSO I SOMEHOW LOST YOUR EMAIL ADDRESS TO SEND THE PIX OF THE CAM PLUG BRACKET SO I AM GOING TO SEND IT TO JOE AND HE CAN SEND IT ON TO YOU OR POST IT YOU SHOULD BE ABLE TO SEE THE BARCKET ONE ON EACH END OF THE CYL HEAD AT THE BACK, IF YOU DON,T HAV ETHEM THEY WOULD BE EASY TO MAKE JERRY

Starchild · Posted: Fri May 26, 2006 11:56 pm Post subject:

Starchild · Posted: Mon May 29, 2006 10:24 pm Post subject:

I actually got the transmission under the truck today, and did some test fitting. I got a couple of bolts started, and it looks like I'll need to cut down the snout of the torque converter, and probably add shims between the TC and the flex plate.

Here's how things look

This is with the trans pretty close to where it will be

I approximtaed the location of the front output shaft and things are going to be tight. The front diff is narrow, and is probably farther towards the center than the T-case output. This is going to cause problems with the driveshaft clearance. This is the view from roughly where the t-case front output will be looking towards the front

And here where you can actually see the front axle

Another thing I noticed was that there is not much room for the t-case with the way it will be clocked. I'm going to either have to clearance the body, or do a larger body lift.

But everything else is going great Rolling Eyes

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1994 Trooper - Delightfully close to stock

Tad · Posted: Mon May 29, 2006 10:35 pm Post subject:

Could you clock it "down" or leave it unclocked to help with clearance? Would a thin front driveshaft work? How about a section of chain? It will wind up under load Wink

As much as you don't want to think about it, are there other t-cases that bolt to the 700r4 that have a front output that is more offset?

-Tad
_________________
tad@planetisuzoo.com
http://www.planetisuzoo.com
2001 Trooper - 4.77s, 3xARB, OME 919HD springs. 255x85 Maxxis Bighorn MTs
1999 Rodeo - rebuilt DD
1980 300GD
2000 Suburban
2000 E320

Starchild · Posted: Mon May 29, 2006 11:37 pm Post subject:

bigpoppax2 · Posted: Tue May 30, 2006 9:22 am Post subject:

One thing you do have working in your favor is IFS. Your front diff won't move so you don't need much clearance. I'd say turn the shaft around backwards and put the thin section near the pan should help some.

Joe
_________________
After concealed carry guy shot a gun wielding robber....."I'm just a Law abiding citizen dumping some chlorine into the gene pool"

98 RodeoPort 34" LTB's, Supercharged and some other cool stuff.

Starchild · Posted: Tue May 30, 2006 3:32 pm Post subject:

Starchild · Posted: Mon Jun 05, 2006 12:01 pm Post subject:

Got a lot done this weekend. The T-case is about 90% done.

The gears were a tight fit, and it took some trial and error, but they are in. There is a very specific installation order that must be followed to get everything in. Most of that was figured out after I couldn't fit parts in, and had to start taking stuff apart.

The new transmission is bolted up! I trimmed about 1/2" off the shout of the torque converter that extends into the flex plate bushing. I still need to shim the 1/2" or so between the flex plate and the TC, but here's how it looks now.

I got some longer bolts, and some washers to fill the gap. I'll probably end up running a bead or two down the washers (4 stacked) and attach them to the TC.

The driveshaft looks like it won't be a problem. With the stock shaft flipped to put the slip yoke at the diff side, it looks like it should clear. If I need to, I can easily trim 1/4" off the edge of the tranny pan.

I am going to need to do a 3" body lift to clear the transfer case with the clocking that is built into the adapter. It's either that, or cut out and replace a part of the body tunnel, and I'm not too excited about tearing out the whole interior. Besides, it will give me an excuse to buy bigger tires Twisted Evil

I preparation for the body lift, I started on a set of drop radiator brackets. I had a spare set lying around, so I cut them, and added a 3" piece of plate to allow the radiator and fan shroud to stay in the stock position after the lift. I'll get some pics of those after I get them welded up.

I was thinking about the 12V connection for the trans. For simplicity, I was thinking about going directly to the battery. Any reason this should need to be fused? It's only for the TC lockup.

I hope to be driving this thing soon Wink

Andre
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1994 Trooper - Delightfully close to stock

bigpoppax2 · Posted: Mon Jun 05, 2006 12:24 pm Post subject:

Looks like you are making some pretty good progress. Glad to hear things seem to be going well.

I'd fuse just about anything that's directly hooked to the battery. Reason being that your battery can produce a whole bunch of short circuit amperage. Well hell it's enough to weld with. So I'd fuse it. You don't want to have to replace the wire or worse the unit the wire is going to.

Joe
_________________
After concealed carry guy shot a gun wielding robber....."I'm just a Law abiding citizen dumping some chlorine into the gene pool"

98 RodeoPort 34" LTB's, Supercharged and some other cool stuff.

Starchild · Posted: Mon Jun 05, 2006 4:34 pm Post subject:

I'll have to look into adding a fuse in line.

I'm trying to keep things as simple as possible, so I might end up using the stock trans cross member for the time being. I picked up a stock trans mount that goes with the adapter, and I should be able to re-drill a few holes and make it line up. With the location of the torsion bars, and the brake lines running down the inside of the passenger side frame, it will be tough to build a new cross member with better clearance.
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1994 Trooper - Delightfully close to stock

Starchild · Posted: Tue Jun 20, 2006 12:16 am Post subject: Need some opinions

Ok guys,
I need some input here Confused

I should get some good wrenching time this weekend, and I'm still undecided about how to deal with the clearance issue between the T-case and the torsion bar

It's resting somewhat solid on the bar, but I can pull it off with some effort. It will probably make an aweful rackett once I crank the engine if I leave it like this.

Here's what I've come up with so far:

-The easiest solution would be to get some foam pipe insulation and wrap the torsion bar.

-The T-case is somewhat thick in this area, I could probably grind it down a bit, but I wouldn't want to take off more than 1/8".

-I could re-drill the cross member mount to locate the case about 1/2" to the drivers side, but this would probably be a PITA to install and remove, and would stress the engine mounts.

Or some combination of the above.

Any ideas? Confused

Thanks,
Andre
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1994 Trooper - Delightfully close to stock