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Oil starved 99 3.5L Trooper ready to die. Please help.

6K views 16 replies 6 participants last post by  Philbra 
#1 ·
After what I discovered must be the result of oil starvation, the engine in my 99 Trooper is about to die. I hear a higher pitched ticking that matches the engine speed which I'm pretty sure is coming from under the valve cover. It's probably due to a shim that was worn excessively due to lack of lubrication. That's not such a problem as long as the tappets and cam are in shape.

Secondly, I hear a lower banging sound when the RPMs increase. I don't hear it at idle and the noise is a little less consistent than the ticking mentioned above. If I had to guess, it's not due to a faulty timing belt tensioner. I assume it's rod-knock on cylinder one based on what I've read on this forum. Obviously, this is a more serious problem than the first and I'm looking into my options for an engine rebuild.

Since I first heard these noises, I immediately checked the oil level and discovered a dry dipstick. I filled to capacity and drove maybe 20 miles, parked it in my driveway, and haven't driven it since. I did an oil change using a pre-change additive (I would have used seafoam if I had known about it) and added some engine honey with the new 5W-30 oil. I started it up and let it warm up for a few minutes but the noises didn't seem to be significantly affected by the change.

I don't plan on driving it until I have a solution plan, there's no sense it making the problem worse by poking a rod through the block or spinning another bearing.

I have some questions that I'm hoping someone can help me out with:

1. Where can I buy valve shims in bulk? I called the dealership and they want $7 a piece (fine, I can handle that since I'm guessing I don't have to replace many of them.) But they mentioned that they come in varying thicknesses from 2.4-3.2mm. I'm sure this is to allow adjustment of the correct clearance. Plus, they don't stock these shims and they'd need to order them bulk or in a really expensive kit. Since a shim is just a metal cylinder with a diameter and thickness (probably cut from a long rod), I'm pretty sure there's got to be a place with buckets of these things where I can go to pick up the ones I need. Maybe I'm living in fantasy land. Please let me know if there are places that stock this type of part and how I might find them.

2. What is necessary to get to cylinder one's crank bearing? Is it necessary to pull the motor to drop the oil pan? Does the trooper have a single oil pan or is it one of the upper/lower types? How much can you really see when the pan is off? I haven't gotten underneath and taken a look but it'd be great if I could get the pan off and evaluate the condition of the bottom end before pulling the motor entirely.

3. Is there a good source for a replacement engine (long block or short block) if I decide to go that route? I'm pretty sure the top end of the motor doesn't need any work but while it's off, I'd probably have a shop run through the heads just to be sure. I've learned that Troopers share a motor with the 98-99 Acura SLX and the 02-03 Axiom (only difference here is the cam position or cam angle sensor.) Do these other options make finding parts any easier?

4. Are there any other engine options? It'd be fun to drop a Ford 302 or a Chevy 305 in but I doubt anything would match up mechanically or electrically. I didn't really intend to turn this into a major project but if there are people with experience in these swaps I'd consider it.

5. Are there any Isuzu-experienced engine rebuilders in southeast Michigan?

6. What am I forgetting?

I appreciate any help you gents can offer.
 
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#2 ·
Excellent questions, most of which I can't help you with :roll:

But I can tell you there aren't any easy engine swaps that have been documented...here is the only info I know of http://myweb.cableone.net/bcanderson/tr ... aSwap.html
Obviously you can look into replacing the whole drivetrain as well.
Good luck!
 
#4 ·
Oh, and another valuable resource is Matt Brown at Independent4x http://www.independent4x.bigstep.com/. He is about the only full-service Isuzu vendor out there, and is a very helpful guy in general, and know a lot about engine swaps and all. I recommend you call him rather than email.

Also the Isuzu board at Pirate 4x4 is full of hardcore gearheads who think nothing of swapping out an engine for fun...
 
#6 ·
I don't know of a place that has valve shims for the 3.5, but I have a link to an online dealer that has them for the 3.2. It's a Honda dealer so it only has the Rodeo/Passport stuff. But to give you an idea, there are about 41 different shims at $5.24 each for the 3.2. I think the 3.2 and 3.5 are pretty similar but I don't know if the shims are the same.

With that many shims I think your best bet is to take it apart measure what shims you need then order them online from some place like http://isuzu.stcharlesauto.com/, that's a common dealership people call up for parts that gives a good price and good service.

Here's the link if you wanna take a look. http://www.slhondaparts.com/browse....79+&Section=A&Category=E++11++|CAMSHAFT-VALVE
 
#7 ·
Well, I had the same types of noise. It wasn't from "oil stravation", the #1 bearing just decided to "go".

At first, I hoped it was the shims. I followed the shop manual and measured the actual clearance. I compared it to the specs and computed what additional thickness I would need. I then ordered what I needed. I believe it was just two that were out of spec. Or, I could use one that was way out of spec for one cylinder in another cyclinder etc. Anyway, I got them all in spec and it didn't do diddly squat for the bad bearing (no duh).

Other things that convinced me it was a bad bearing:

1) Oil pressure was low and dropping. When I first noticed the noise I was 30 miles from home and kept diving (checked the oil, etc so ther was no obvious cause). As I drove, the oil pressure gauge showed lower and lower pressure. It never got to zero. I believe that as the bearing wears, the gap opens up and oil squirts through with less resistance thus the pressure drops.

2) When I drained the oil, there were iron particles in it. I also pulled the filter and cut it open. Lots of pariticals there also.

The truck had 63000 miles on it, 3000 out of warrentee. The dealer/Isuzu put in a new engine. I paid like $400, $250 for new oil pump and I had them put in a new timing belt while they were there.

I made good case that is was a defect and in fact when they opened up the engine, they admitted that it was cleaner than most engines they see with half the miles.

If I were you, check #1 and #2 above. If you find the same thing, forget about the shims and do the engine. Sorry.

Good Luck

PeteC
 
#8 ·
PeteC said:
The dealer/Isuzu put in a new engine. I paid like $400, $250 for new oil pump and I had them put in a new timing belt while they were there.
Hu? You put a new oil pump and new timing belt in a new engine?
 
#9 ·
PeteC, was your 3.2/3.5 an oil user? Had it ever been run low on oil? You would not be the first report I've seen on a spun bearing on a full sump of oil. The question of the day is; Why con rod bearing #1?? It's the closest to & first to get oil from the oil pump!?! One therory I've heard is that's the end of the crank that sees the most load. Just don't know why that main bearing wouldn't go then :x !

G/luck
Joel
 
#10 ·
ProBMXer1313 said:
PeteC said:
The dealer/Isuzu put in a new engine. I paid like $400, $250 for new oil pump and I had them put in a new timing belt while they were there.
Hu? You put a new oil pump and new timing belt in a new engine?
The "new engine" was a "short block". It didn't include all the stuff beyond the block, crank, cams, etc. The oil pump was a kinda bargining chip. I could have argued that the old pump was ruined by the particals from the bearing. I decided after all the negotiations that I would give on the pump.

If I didn't opt for a new timing belt, they would have put the old one on this "engine".

PeteC
 
#11 ·
JTK said:
PeteC, was your 3.2/3.5 an oil user? Had it ever been run low on oil? You would not be the first report I've seen on a spun bearing on a full sump of oil. The question of the day is; Why con rod bearing #1?? It's the closest to & first to get oil from the oil pump!?! One therory I've heard is that's the end of the crank that sees the most load. Just don't know why that main bearing wouldn't go then :x !

G/luck
Joel
It did/does use oil. I keep a real good eye on it. I dount if I ever got as much as 1 qt. low. I am always lifting the hood and checking everything including the oil. I just keep topping it off. Because I do that, I can't tell you how many miles/quart I get.

When I go to the gas station, I just say, "Fill up the oil and check the gas". Sorry, old joke. It isn't that bad.

PeteC
 
#12 ·
Pete, out of curiosity, what viscosity range oil did/do you run? Isuzu specs anything from a 5w-30 to a 20w-50 is ok depending on your ambient temps. Just trying to figure what viscosity range would keep these engines from cratering, thicker or thinner oil?!? Thicker gives you more 'cusion' between surfaces, higher pressure & less flow, where thinner gives you a higher flow rate and takes heat away faster. I know it's best to run what isuzu says, but these engines are spinning bearings on what is spec'd!

Thanks
Joel
 
#13 ·
To tell you the truth, I don't pay a lot of attention to the viscosity. Usually 10w40 I think. I try to use the thinner stuff during the winter but I buy it by the case so I use what ever I have when it comes time to change it.

As I recall, for this area (Buffalo NY), any popular multivis should cover our temperature range.

PeteC
 
#14 ·
Yeah, I've run 5w-20, 5w-30, 10w-30 and 15w-40. My 2002 ran like a top on all of them, I chickened out on the (out of spec) 5w-20 and went back to 5w-30 while she's still under warranty. Did Towne Isuzu do your engine r/r?

G/luck
Joel
 
#16 ·
I hope towne 'zu hangs on. They've always been pretty good. Expensive parts counter (no prob with stcharlesauto.com around), but excellent service dept!

G/luck
Joel
 
#17 ·
I've come across engines in the past with what were believed to have spun bearings, only to clean them out and run with some good oil and time (i.e. no reving) with sometimes positive results.

If you know the engine is toast, it won't hurt to atleast experiment a little with it. Try draining the engine and refilling with 5w-30 and Seafoam to clear the engine out. The range to drive varies between the board and the can. I usually drive five miles, but with your situation just letting it idle for a while with occasional reving may be sufficient.

Afterwards, go ahead and drain/refill (incl filter) and drive it 10-20 miles and see if that makes any difference.
 
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