Rear Axle Bearing and Seal

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Rear Axle Bearing and Seal

Postby PolarStar » Wed Jul 29, 2009 5:38 pm

So I failed my VA inspection in part because I need a new rear axle bearing and seal. (I knew it had busted about 6 months ago when I had grease flying out and coating the inside of the wheel rim.)

So how difficult is this for a weekend warrior to replace? The part appears to be available at RockAuto for only $22

TIMKEN Part # TRP1563TAV
Kit; Rear Whl; GM Axle;7.625" R.G.; Opt. Axle Rpr Brg. Replaces O.E. Brg & Seal

Which I guess is a replacement for both parts 40 & 37 here:
Image

If anybody has done this to a 1992 Isuzu Rodeo, please chime in.
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Postby Gizmo42 » Wed Jul 29, 2009 7:50 pm

If I remember the bearings and seals on GM axles (at least the ones used on isuzus) are pressed into the axle tube and not on the axle shaft. Getting them out is usually pretty easy, just need to rent a slide hammer with bearing puller attachment from the auto parts store. Getting the new one in without damage is harder. Will need something to be able to hammer the new bearing in which just contacts the outer race of the bearing.

Doing just the seals is much easier. Just pop the old one out, then light tap in a circle around the outer part of the seal until its seated.
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Postby sassee » Thu Jul 30, 2009 11:31 am

You'll have to remove the diff cover and take off the C-clip that holds the axle in place, then slide out the axle. Don't know what part of the country you are in but Auto Zone will loan you the axle bearing removal kit with slide hammer (Deposit required until they get it back). Other than that, a large socket will do to CAREFULLY drive new bearing into place (only drive the new bearing on the outside edge). Really is a simple job though.

e
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Postby PolarStar » Thu Jul 30, 2009 11:36 am

You guys are helping explain my Haynes manual perfectly. Thanks!
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Postby SurferJoe » Thu Jul 30, 2009 12:34 pm

I never knew that Isuzu used "C-type" GM rear ends. Hmmm. Interesting!

I also then wonder if one could install the "saver" bearing when/if the original bearing fails? I like to generally use then on my K5s as they put the bearing load on the axle a little further out and resists axle breaking that way.

To remove the c-clip you have to take out the spider gears first -
---and THAT requires taking out the cross-shaft -
---and before THAT comes out -
---you need to remove the cross-shaft retainer pin.

These have a nasty habit of breaking INSIDE the housing and are really hard to remove when you pull out the threaded stub and find out that you don't have the whole rest of the pin attached.

Has anybody ever had the cross-shaft pin (gudgeon pin) internally fracture? If so - I have a cure for it in case anybody needs to remove one.
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Postby PolarStar » Thu Jul 30, 2009 12:41 pm

SurferJoe wrote:I never knew that Isuzu used "C-type" GM rear ends. Hmmm. Interesting!


Yeah, I learned a little about that bearing I ordered from a Camaro website
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Postby GEG » Fri Jul 31, 2009 1:04 am

There is no clip in doing a 1996 Rodeo differential. The Axles come right out with the removal of the four nuts holding the backing plate. I had to cut the old bearings and retainers with a dremel. That is not easy and you MUST be careful not to screw up the seal race. Putting the new seals, bearings and retainer is easy if you have a press.
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Postby Gizmo42 » Fri Jul 31, 2009 11:50 am

There is no clip in doing a 1996 Rodeo differential.


Yeah, the D44 in 93+ rodeos is a whole different animal then the GM unit in his '92. I just had a shop do mine since I dont have a press. Was an expensive day though since I bought a Ruger KP944 .40 cal while waiting LOL.
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Postby PolarStar » Fri Jul 31, 2009 12:26 pm

Gizmo42 wrote:
There is no clip in doing a 1996 Rodeo differential.


Yeah, the D44 in 93+ rodeos is a whole different animal then the GM unit in his '92. I just had a shop do mine since I dont have a press. Was an expensive day though since I bought a Ruger KP944 .40 cal while waiting LOL.


Here's what my Haynes sez:

Axleshaft removal

8. Raise the rear, block the wheels, blah blah blah, remove the brake drum.
9. Unscrew and remove the pressed steel cover from the differential housing. Allow lubricant to drain.
10. Remove the lock bolt from the differential pinion shaft. Remove the pinion shaft.
11. Push the outer (flanged) end of the axleshaft in and remove the C-lock from the inner end of the shaft.
12. Withdraw the axleshaft.

Which pretty much jives with sassee's comments.

What's the lubricant in the differential housing? I should replace that, yes?

Any other lubing work I can do while this is all apart?
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Postby SurferJoe » Sat Aug 01, 2009 1:00 am

The lube is commonly called: "90-weight" or GL5 or sumpthin' like that.

I like the multi-weights (85/120-EPW) for my differentials and transmissions NOT made by Isuzu.

While you're there, get out the grease gun and shoot the u-joints if they have Zerks - too bad if they don't. Factory type u-joints are usually permanently sealed types and won't need greasing until they fail. Mine are original at 300,000+ miles so far and quiet and tight - that's good because I don't treat them nicely at all.

I also like to use some "open drive" or motorcycle chain lube on the leaf springs - getting between the leaves and staying away from the rubber eye bushings at the same time. Makes the springs work a lot nicer and smoother too.

In the Olden Daze, we greased the leaves and between them with a special flat bladed grease gun nozzle and then we wrapped the springs with "friction tape" which I do not believe is available any more. It was a cloth tape with some nasty-sticky stuff that mostly got all over your fingers and clothes when you worked with it.

If you have the OTHER Isuzu-type differential with the press-required axle bearing, then make sure that the machinist takes the old slinger OFF the axle too. It will tear up the new outer seal in 50 miles or less. My machinist didn't and he had to eat the whole thing all over again and new pads and a rebuilt pair of calipers too since they got contaminated by all the gear lube that escaped onto the rubber seals and boots.
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Postby PolarStar » Mon Aug 03, 2009 6:30 pm

sassee wrote:You'll have to remove the diff cover and take off the C-clip that holds the axle in place, then slide out the axle. Don't know what part of the country you are in but Auto Zone will loan you the axle bearing removal kit with slide hammer (Deposit required until they get it back). Other than that, a large socket will do to CAREFULLY drive new bearing into place (only drive the new bearing on the outside edge). Really is a simple job though.

e


Arggh! Okay, got this pinion rod and gears out and the manual sez I have to push the axle in to release the c-clip. I can't push the axle in but about 2mm and no where nearly able to get to the c-clip.

How can I get it to go in further?
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Postby Gizmo42 » Mon Aug 03, 2009 7:12 pm

2mm should be enough to get the c-clip out. If you have someone that can help, have them move the shaft in and out while you try to get the clip out. If not, you can try a ratchet strap or something to keep the shaft pushed in all the way. Usually once the shaft is pushed in a bit you can use a magnet to grab the clip and pull it out.
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Postby SurferJoe » Mon Aug 03, 2009 7:18 pm

If you have the cross shaft out and all, then sit on your butt and use the bottom of either foot and slam the axle in by smacking it on the outer flange - where the wheel studs are.

Use a hard bottom shoe.

You should hear the tinkle of the c-clip falling out into the pumpkin.
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Postby PolarStar » Mon Aug 03, 2009 11:46 pm

SurferJoe wrote:If you have the cross shaft out and all, then sit on your butt and use the bottom of either foot and slam the axle in by smacking it on the outer flange - where the wheel studs are.

Use a hard bottom shoe.

You should hear the tinkle of the c-clip falling out into the pumpkin.



I swear if I meet any of you, I'm buying you a beer. I smacked it a few times with a rubber mallet and it fell right out.

Now if only I knew I had to remove the rest of the drum brakes plate to get the bearing /seal out, I could have saved myself some frustration. Stupid worthless Haynes.

Hey, I'm betting this groove in the axleshaft is a bad thing.

Couple more beers and I'm calling it a night.
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Postby SurferJoe » Mon Aug 03, 2009 11:57 pm

What groove? Where? How Deep?

Take some pictures and post them here. This is getting interesting!

PS: I was hoping that you didn't smack that axle flange with a bare foot. Beer can cause that to happen, you know!

Your bearing/seal should not require pulling the backing plate either. You DO need a special puller head that acts like a Mollie bolt and toggles into the back side of the bearing and you can use a slide hammer to get it out.

If like a NORMAL GM C-type, then the seal and bearing are one piece and are serviced simultaneously.
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Postby GEG » Tue Aug 04, 2009 12:56 am

Your differential might not have clips. Look and see if you have 4 bolts holding tha backing plate. Also look and see if your backing plate is also a retainer. The clip Dana 44 has a seal that fits inside the alxe tube, the other model has the seal in the retainer.
Just for giggles take the nuts off the four retainer bolts and then use a slide hammer on the axle. If it is the model without the clips, the axle will come loose along with the retainer/backing plate.
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Postby SurferJoe » Tue Aug 04, 2009 1:32 am

He got the axle c-clip out, but the bearing remains so it has to be a c-type. The bearing is hammered into the housing and not pressed onto the axle itself.

It requires a slide hammer with a special foot. The following pixs are of a FORD, sorry! But the moves are the same anyway.

Pull the seal if it's a separate type like this:

Image

The bearing will look like this - or not! It might have a self-sealing outer seal, but here's a look-see at one type:

Image

Here's one variation on the bearing puller:

Image

Once it's in, give it a few healthy hits and it will walk out:

Image

Going back in:

Image

Is that groove that you see like this? :

Image

It might be OK or you MAY be able to get a new style bearing that rides in a different position (Axle Saver-type) and I actually prefer them as they move the shear loads to a better spot on the axle that way. Maybe Isuzus won't accept it though. I dunnow. Ask Jerry.

If the axle surface looks like this:

Image

Then it might be save-able!

Here's a NAPA Saver bearing (typical):

Image

It has a NAPA P/N R1556. and is reasonable at about $34.16.

I believe that SKF has a "saver-type" for Isuzu as I've been Googling around for a bit now. It's one of the following:

SKF Wheel Bearing FW153 - (SKF - 90080-36021, 90080-36021-D, 90080-36078, 90369-43008, 90369-43009, 90369-43010, FW153)

Image

About $35.00. Somehow that doesn't look right though!
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Postby PolarStar » Tue Aug 04, 2009 1:57 pm

SurferJoe wrote:He got the axle c-clip out, but the bearing remains so it has to be a c-type. The bearing is hammered into the housing and not pressed onto the axle itself.

It requires a slide hammer with a special foot. The following pixs are of a FORD, sorry! But the moves are the same anyway.



Yeah, no the bearing and seal were separate. The seal though was stuck and couldn't come out without removing the plate. I got a couple pictures to come.

I got everything back together and have an interesting problem now though. The differential housing plate does NOT have a fill plug like it ought to. There is an indentation where one could be drilled out apparently. I'm thinking of zipping down to Advance Auto and see what they have in the way of self tapping fuel tank plugs, maybe.

Any quick thoughts before I head down there?
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Postby PolarStar » Tue Aug 04, 2009 4:34 pm

Scratch that, I found the filler plug on the right side.
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Postby PolarStar » Tue Aug 04, 2009 7:32 pm

SurferJoe wrote:What groove? Where? How Deep?

Take some pictures and post them here. This is getting interesting!

PS: I was hoping that you didn't smack that axle flange with a bare foot. Beer can cause that to happen, you know!

Your bearing/seal should not require pulling the backing plate either. You DO need a special puller head that acts like a Mollie bolt and toggles into the back side of the bearing and you can use a slide hammer to get it out.

If like a NORMAL GM C-type, then the seal and bearing are one piece and are serviced simultaneously.


Axleshaft (Sorry, the picture quality isn't great.)
The groove there is about 1/2 millimeter deep and exactly the width of a bearing.
Image

Disk Plate
See where it curves around at the axle hole? The flange of the seal was wider than the plate cover. Once I loosened the plate (it's shown here loose) and moved it up the seal came right out and then the bearing behind popped out no problem with the slide hammer. It guess it is possible that the bearing and seal were one piece until I went after the little bastard with a dremel. A few hacks and pries with a screwdriver and I realized what I had to do. Haynes, fwiw, sez the bearing and seal are separate.
Image

So in my message from last night I had already got everything out. Today was putting everything back in. The bearing/seal I bought is listed in the first post and yes, seems to miss riding the same groove in the axleshaft. So I think I'm okay there.

The really only area of concern is that I rammed this bearing in as far as I could and still had about 1/4"" before reaching the rear lip in the axle. I read that this particular bearing/seal combo sticks out a little further so I think it's okay. But I'll take any advice. The axleshaft went in great, had to break out the rubber mallet again to get it seat and had plenty of room for the C-clip.

Drive home on I-95 went well. No vibrations any more. Sweet. Lot smoother coasting too. I seem to pulling to the right now. Probably my alignment's been off and the correct rear axle magnifies it?
Last edited by PolarStar on Tue Aug 04, 2009 7:44 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Postby PolarStar » Tue Aug 04, 2009 7:34 pm

And yes, before any one mentions it. My next project is to overhaul the rear brakes.

:P
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Postby SurferJoe » Tue Aug 04, 2009 7:48 pm

Interesting that you had to loosen the backing plate to get the old parts out. Hmmmm!

Enn-i-way - the bearing you got may be for a repair-installation as they do stick out a little more - although I knew this guy who got the saver/bearing back into the same place the OE bearing went on a full-sized GMC Suburban. He then went out and bought a new/used differential housing!

NO noise is GOOD noise, so I'm thinkin' ya done it right!

I cannot see how a good bearing on one side would now make the vehicle pull at all. It's also NOT a good idea to pack a new axle bearing with cup grease (olde-fashioned term - make that: "fibrous bearing grease" nowadays!)

If you use fibrous bearing grease, then the 90wt differential lube will channel away from the areas where it needs to lubricate and flow with no restrictions.

What's wrong with the rear brakes? No leaks - plenty of meat - springs all there ? Unless you redacted the bad parts, I don't really see any need for a while yet.

Since I can see that you've been working on the passenger's side (in the US anyway), the shoes are on correctly too.
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Postby PolarStar » Tue Aug 04, 2009 8:09 pm

SurferJoe wrote:Interesting that you had to loosen the backing plate to get the old parts out. Hmmmm!

Enn-i-way - the bearing you got may be for a repair-installation as they do stick out a little more - although I knew this guy who got the saver/bearing back into the same place the OE bearing went on a full-sized GMC Suburban. He then went out and bought a new/used differential housing!

NO noise is GOOD noise, so I'm thinkin' ya done it right!

I cannot see how a good bearing on one side would now make the vehicle pull at all. It's also NOT a good idea to pack a new axle bearing with cup grease (olde-fashioned term - make that: "fibrous bearing grease" nowadays!)


Yeah, it may just be a coincidence. I still need to care of the right front ball joints. But if it's helpful, I could move up and down the axle shaft before replaced the bearing.

If you use fibrous bearing grease, then the 90wt differential lube will channel away from the areas where it needs to lubricate and flow with no restrictions.


The bearing instructions said just to lube it up with 90Wt. So that's all I did.

What's wrong with the rear brakes? No leaks - plenty of meat - springs all there ? Unless you redacted the bad parts, I don't really see any need for a while yet.

Since I can see that you've been working on the passenger's side (in the US anyway), the shoes are on correctly too.


Well, there's some grooves in the drum and my safety inspections jerks said I need them turned. Whatever. I'll buy new ones. I hate those guys. They said the cylinders need rebuilt too. Soooo, okay, I'll replace them too.

Frankly, there is some satisfaction in telling these guys to shove their mostly trumped up work, and then taking care of it myself.
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Postby shuriken » Thu Nov 05, 2009 11:16 am

Hello everyone.

I performed a search using the term axleshaft and it brought me to this post. I have a 1992 Isuzu Pickup (2.3 carb, 150k miles) and I too have just failed inspection due to leaky axleshaft oil seals. This post has been very helpful. I do have a few questions that perhaps you all could help me with, though.

1. Is it OK to post questions about my (non-4wd) truck here? I looked for rules and didn't see any about this...
2. Does anyone know if my make/model requires removing the pressed steel plate on the rear differential housing to remove the bolt, pin, and clips so that the axleshafts can be removed? I wasn't able to see the inspection to see if there are retaining bolts on the hub plate on my truck and won't be able to look until tonight or tomorrow.... If my truck has the 4 bolts, this job should be less involving than if I have to go into the differential, right?
3. I was quoted like $500 (~8.3 hrs labor only) by the shop (local only, not an Isuzu dealer) to replace front pads, rear shoes, rear wheel bearings, and rear axleshaft oil seals. I have a Haynes manual. This job looks do-able, albeit messy. I'm no pro mechanic but I have done stuff like clutch, drive axles, timing belt, transmission replacement, brakes, alternators, etc. on my 84 Honda. There is a local auto-zone and NAPA from which I could rent tools. What am I in for as a first timer trying to do this job?
4. I've never worked on ABS brakes before. Is it best to let the shop replace pads and shoes?

Thanks in advance for the help.
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Postby PolarStar » Thu Nov 05, 2009 1:11 pm

shuriken wrote:Hello everyone.

I performed a search using the term axleshaft and it brought me to this post. I have a 1992 Isuzu Pickup (2.3 carb, 150k miles) and I too have just failed inspection due to leaky axleshaft oil seals. This post has been very helpful. I do have a few questions that perhaps you all could help me with, though.

1. Is it OK to post questions about my (non-4wd) truck here? I looked for rules and didn't see any about this...


Of course you can.

2. Does anyone know if my make/model requires removing the pressed steel plate on the rear differential housing to remove the bolt, pin, and clips so that the axleshafts can be removed? I wasn't able to see the inspection to see if there are retaining bolts on the hub plate on my truck and won't be able to look until tonight or tomorrow.... If my truck has the 4 bolts, this job should be less involving than if I have to go into the differential, right?


Looks like you have the four bolts. But other people wiser than me would know better

Image

3. I was quoted like $500 (~8.3 hrs labor only) by the shop (local only, not an Isuzu dealer) to replace front pads, rear shoes, rear wheel bearings, and rear axleshaft oil seals. I have a Haynes manual. This job looks do-able, albeit messy. I'm no pro mechanic but I have done stuff like clutch, drive axles, timing belt, transmission replacement, brakes, alternators, etc. on my 84 Honda. There is a local auto-zone and NAPA from which I could rent tools. What am I in for as a first timer trying to do this job?
4. I've never worked on ABS brakes before. Is it best to let the shop replace pads and shoes?

Thanks in advance for the help.



3 and 4. Dude, I think you'll have no problem. But you know, that price sounds pretty good to me.
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